SEX, GUILT AND RELIGION (The Spirit of Things: 12/08/2007)
Homosexuality, religious beliefs and a history of psychiatric treatment
combine to make Michael Green's account of his life a cocktail of guilt
and suffering. But guilt can be hard to let go of, and Dorothy
McRae-McMahon, a retired minister of the Uniting Church, believes the
Church is partly to blame. The Rev'd McMahon draws on its ethic of
forgiveness to create new rituals of healing. The Spirit of Things - 12August2007 - Sex, Guilt and Religion
81 WORDS: THE INSIDE STORY OF PSYCHIATRY AND HOMOSEXUALITY (PART 2 OF 2)
(All In The Mind: 11/08/2007)
Being gay was considered a mental disorder by psychiatry - until 1973 -
when the battle lines were drawn. In this final episode, reporter Alix
Spiegel continues the gripping story that spurred a radical rethink.
It's the story of a closeted cartel of powerful, gay psychiatrists; of
confrontations with angry activists; a shrink dressed in a Nixon mask,
and a pivotal encounter in a Hawaiian bar. All In The Mind - 11August2007 - 81 Words: the inside story of psychiatry and homosexuality (Part 2 of 2)
__________________ Michael the Archangel
m "Politicians will never solve, The Problem;
because they don't realise they are The Problem." -Robert ( Bob ) Parsons 1995 (Australian philosopher and Master Horticulturalist).
__________________ Hypography Forums Moderator -- - - - - - What concerns me is not the way things are, but rather the way people think things are.
Epictetus, Greek Philosopher The map is NOT the territory.
Korzybski, Polish-American Philosopher
Fascinating that so many psychiatrists were homosexual yet treating it as a disease!
I forgot to post this I haven't listened to it yet
It will only be there for a week same url
81 Words: the inside story of psychiatry and homosexuality [Part 1 of 2]
Homosexuality was once labelled a mental disease by psychiatry. But in 1973 the challenge came from within. The American Psychiatric Association had a change of heart. And with the tweak of the 81-word definition of sexual deviance in its own diagnostic manual, lives were reclaimed, and values confronted. Reporter and narrator Alix Spiegel tells the gripping story from the inside, revealing the activities of a closeted group of gay psychiatrists who sowed the seeds of change, amongst them her own grandfather, president-elect of the APA at the time. From Chicago Public Radio's This American Life.
__________________ Michael the Archangel
m "Politicians will never solve, The Problem;
because they don't realise they are The Problem." -Robert ( Bob ) Parsons 1995 (Australian philosopher and Master Horticulturalist).
It's interesting, in the social context, to see what the ancient Greeks thought of homosexuality and compare how far our society has moved since then. While women and 'rent boys' were excluded from participating in the democratic process (voting) Aristophanes reveals further details about the treatment of homosexuals in ancient Greek society in his play 'The Clouds'.
The key point in the play turns on the defeat of Right by Wrong using the argument that, as many of the ancient Greek elites were homosexual, then being raddish buggered after being caught committing adultery, wasn't really a punishment at all (in the topsy turvey world under the 'vortex' god and sophism).
Aristophanes failed to realise that, while a heterosexual might find it extremely unpleasent to be tied down and have the largest root vegetable in the larder involuntarily inserted into their rectum, a homosexual would probably feel the same way, especially if the insertion of the aforementioned large raddish was involuntary.
Aristophanes failed to get his point across because he didn't draw a distinction between the involuntary and the voluntary, between rape and consent.
And our own global politicians fail the very same test today, because the conquest, occupation and exploitation of other nations resources, have only been recognised in respect to the national interests of the occupiers and exploiters, and not with respect to the peoples whose countries and resources are being raped by the above.
At least, in hindsight, when the 'vortex' god and Wrong hold sway, society starts to fall apart very quickly.
I guess (?) you are saying that those with the power, get the power to rape?
I would imagine that Ancient Spartan society was totally predicated, upheld and only possible because of institutionalized homosexuality
So to the Catholic Church over the last 500 years??
As for the Republican party well. . .?
__________________ Michael the Archangel
m "Politicians will never solve, The Problem;
because they don't realise they are The Problem." -Robert ( Bob ) Parsons 1995 (Australian philosopher and Master Horticulturalist).
It's interesting, in the social context, to see what the ancient Greeks thought of homosexuality…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelica
I guess (?) you are saying that those with the power, get the power to rape?
To a significant degree, I think cultural history says something very close to this, yes.
A few years ago, I took a touring vacation in Rome, a day of which was dedicated to Pompeii. Pompeii’s iconography was very big on Priapus, an minor Greek-Roman god best known for having a gigantic penis. Priapism, the medical condition of having an abnormal erection, is named for him. Interestingly, Priapus was considered by the Romans less of an erotic/fertility god than a police one. Stern-looking statues of him were placed at town entrances as a warning to criminals, the implication – not really implied, as in some cases, such warnings were literally written in stone – being that the god would punish criminals with … this translation of a period epigram states it clearly:
Quote:
I warn you, my lad, you will be sodomised; you, my girl, I shall futter; for the thief who is bearded, a third punishment remains.
... If I do seize you . . . you shall be so stretched that you will think your anus never had any wrinkles.
While one might think women would consider a futtering from Priapus as something other than punishing, it’s important to note that during the period of his popularity, large penises were not considered preferable to small ones in terms of erotically desirability, but rather as very undesirable. How they came to be considered desirable in later times is the subject of much speculation among cultural historians.
It’s worth noting that this sort of punishment doesn’t appear to have had much to do with male homosexuality, per se. Priapus wasn’t seen as a homosexual god, nor criminals punished by sodomy as gay. It appears to have been viewed rather as a particularly uncomfortable and humiliating – but basically non-injurious - form of punishment, regardless of sexual orientation.
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I guess (?) you are saying that those with the power, get the power to rape?
I would imagine that Ancient Spartan society was totally predicated, upheld and only possible because of institutionalized homosexuality
So to the Catholic Church over the last 500 years??
As for the Republican party well. . .?
Hello Michaelangelica,
The ancient Greeks had very similar elite philosophies, Athenian or Spartan, that could be attributed to the abuse of power that occurs during politically motivated confrontations. Even Thucydidies, in his history of the Pellopenesian war, refers to the Athenians moving from the rule of 5000 (their original democracy) to the rule of 400 (our modern democracy) towards the latter stages of the war, even though their eventual loss resulted in the rule of 40 (our post modern 'cabinet' oligarchy).
The main point to be gained in the war between Athens and Sparta is how their allies were treated. Those minor states who couldn't supply the required ships or the alternate hefty payments insisted on by the Athenians were relegated to the status of vassal or slave states. It's no wonder that the actions of the Athenians themselves, in their terrible treatment of their 'allies' drove many of these states directly into the hands of the Spartans.
Incidentally enough, considering the topic, the Lesbian people from the island of Lesbos were punished by having all the male members of their society executed for their lack of faith to their democratic masters.
It just boils down to the old absolute power corrupts absolutely, homosexuality only comes into the picture because that was the elites 'preference' of the time.
The point I was trying to make about Aristophanes is that he couldn't get his play 'the clouds' right because of the greek cultures failure to come to terms with how a democracy treats its allies, therefore he could call the elites 'faggots' (the term used in the Penguin translation) but he could not work out just exactly what Right had to do to win the argument against Wrong.
IMHO the answer relates to 'do unto others as you would have others do unto you', a method for apportioning punishment for transgressions.
It’s worth noting that this sort of punishment doesn’t appear to have had much to do with male homosexuality, per se. Priapus wasn’t seen as a homosexual god, nor criminals punished by sodomy as gay. It appears to have been viewed rather as a particularly uncomfortable and humiliating – but basically non-injurious - form of punishment, regardless of sexual orientation.
Hello CraigD,
That's spot on. It's the fundamental point that Aristophanes (and many other commentators, who maybe get a bit excited when they see large phallus's all over the place, i.e. on pottery, statues and in the plays chorus) missed when he allowed Wrong to win over Right.
I think ancient Greek homosexuality has allways been quite a bit overrated because it was only a minor proportion of the population (some elites and the poor rent boys) who did it, even though this policy was economically foisted onto political allies by default, by these same elites.
While modern day peoples don't really care about what the global elites do in private, they sure as hell protest a heck of a lot if they try it on their 'allies' via vassal or slave states.
__________________ Michael the Archangel
m "Politicians will never solve, The Problem;
because they don't realise they are The Problem." -Robert ( Bob ) Parsons 1995 (Australian philosopher and Master Horticulturalist).
This morning NBC's Meet the Press turned entirely surreal as Tim Russert interviewed the latest US Presidential Candidate Stephen Colbert, who had this to say about Gay Marriage:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meet the Press Oct 21, 2007
MR. RUSSERT: Gay marriage.
MR. COLBERT: Yeah.
MR. RUSSERT: This is, again, from the Colbert Bible.
MR. COLBERT: Yeah.
MR. RUSSERT: “The biggest threat,” you say, “facing America today—next to socialized medicine, the Dyson vacuum cleaner and the recumbent bicycle.”
MR. COLBERT: Yeah.
MR. RUSSERT: That, to you, that means it’s a serious threat to our culture.
MR. COLBERT: Right. It, it, it’s...
MR. RUSSERT: Why?
MR. COLBERT: Excuse me?
MR. RUSSERT: Why?
MR. COLBERT: Why is gay marriage?
MR. RUSSERT: Mm-hmm.
MR. COLBERT: Marriage is the basic building block of society. And if gay men get married, that threatens my marriage immediately because I only got married as a taunt toward gay men because they couldn’t.
MR. RUSSERT: So it makes you feel insecure.
MR. COLBERT: Well, I just don’t know else—why I got married other than to rub it in gay people’s faces.
MR. RUSSERT: Would you consider Senator Larry Craig as your running mate?
MR. COLBERT: I would.
MR. RUSSERT: Have you had conversations with him?
MR. COLBERT: Define conversation.
MR. RUSSERT: Have you spoken to him?
MR. COLBERT: No, no.
MR. RUSSERT: Have you met with him? Have you been in the same room together?
MR. COLBERT: Yes. And my...
MR. RUSSERT: And how...
MR. COLBERT: Sorry, my lawyer’s telling me to say no more.
MR. RUSSERT: How did you express your interest in developing your relationship?
If we can put Ahnold in the California Governor's office, why can't we put Colbert in the White House,
Buffy
__________________ "If you do not agree with anything I say, I'll not only retract it, but deny under oath that I ever said it!" __________________________________________________ ______________-- Tom Lehrer
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Homosexuality 
Priapus 
